3 degree offset headstem bearings for Yamaha?

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neale
Posts: 280
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2012 6:57 pm
Location: Sydeny NSW

3 degree offset headstem bearings for Yamaha?

Post by neale » Tue May 29, 2012 4:57 pm

These are obviously commonly available for Harleys, does anyone know whether they're available for the Yamaha front ends (specifically '85 XV1000)?

I've been looking through the advice about not going past 40 degrees on a telescopic fork due to stiction, and the stock front end on the XV1000 is 32 degrees, with 5.1" of trail, the 10.5" rear shocks I've just got made up and delivered are 1 1/4" shorter than stock (2" shorter than the heavy duty shocks on it at the moment), and the riding weight of at least 110-115 KG will make it settle more, even with the heavy springs set for the weight, so that would add a little bit to the head angle (I'm guessing 1-2 degrees, anyone know of a good calculator?).

I was looking at the AME kits, as they state that they've retained the effective trail of the stock front end, but the least rake kit that's commonly available is 9 degrees (as well as costing more than the bike did to start off with), which would take the rake beyond 40 degrees.

Anyway, if the effective rake is 33-34 degrees, by my reckoning 3 degrees more would be quite enough for a bike that's there to be ridden around town as well as out of town, rather than look pretty.

This leads to the question of whether the 3 degree offset bearings exist, and are available, for the Yamaha XV1000 front end.

If anyone knows the answer, yes or no, it would be appreciated.

BTW: From that table of Yamaha fork legs, the XV1000/XV1100 has the longest legs at 735mm, so getting longer legs at the wreckers seems out of the question, if available, 3 degrees of rake should lower the front with the existing forks, which would help match the lowering at the rear via the new shocks.

Thanks,

Neale
Neale
'85 XV1000 with some mods, getting there
'86 XT600Z, going under the knife ASAP

Neo Dutch
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Re: 3 degree offset headstem bearings for Yamaha?

Post by Neo Dutch » Tue May 29, 2012 6:01 pm

The bearings are not offset, the cup that hold them are. I think you'll be SOL with the Yammy in this regard. You can get a bit of extra rake with offset yokes.
Don't let your luggage define your travels.

ol_750
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Re: 3 degree offset headstem bearings for Yamaha?

Post by ol_750 » Tue May 29, 2012 7:49 pm

Hi Neale
I been playing with my XJ900 fitting XV1100 forks & rims plus the swing arm that is approx 2inches longer plus a set of 10 1/2 inch shockies.
Been eyeing up the AME kits as well but not seen any offset bearings.
Cheers
Andrew B
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Ride Hard Live Free
Twisties seperate the men from the boys
FarRider 413 "IT'S JUST A ROAD"
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2 x XJ750RL , 4 x XJ900 , XS650 , XV1000 TR1,VN1500 Classic.

neale
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Re: 3 degree offset headstem bearings for Yamaha?

Post by neale » Tue May 29, 2012 9:44 pm

Thanks guys.

Damn bigotry, why can't we get offset bearing cups for the Yammies? If I was American I'd sue someone ;^) ( no, I don' dislike Americans, after working with a US company for 10 years and working directly with the guys 6-7 days a week, I have a lot of friends over there, but they WERE the ones who started the trend of suing someone else whenever something happens you don' like)

Interesting comment on one link I found to a similar question, to find a way to use the Harley stem/bearings/cups in an XS650, could possibly be something to look into maybe.

Weird thing was that I couldn't find the Harley bearing sizes on searches, even though most of the Japanese sizes were there to be

Anyway, good news, Andrew, is that if one of us finds (or is given) an answer, it'd work for both of us, given bearing sizes are the same for the XV and XJ.

Neale
Neale
'85 XV1000 with some mods, getting there
'86 XT600Z, going under the knife ASAP

KBG
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Re: 3 degree offset headstem bearings for Yamaha?

Post by KBG » Tue May 29, 2012 9:58 pm

Just remember if you use harley raked cups in another neck the distance they are apart must be the same.
some meaningless dribble

neale
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Re: 3 degree offset headstem bearings for Yamaha?

Post by neale » Tue May 29, 2012 10:01 pm

KBG wrote:Just remember if you use harley raked cups in another neck the distance they are apart must be the same.
Yeah, thanks
Neale
'85 XV1000 with some mods, getting there
'86 XT600Z, going under the knife ASAP

ol_750
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Location: Mallabula (Port Stephens ) NSW

Re: 3 degree offset headstem bearings for Yamaha?

Post by ol_750 » Wed May 30, 2012 6:25 am

KBG wrote:Just remember if you use harley raked cups in another neck the distance they are apart must be the same.
XV & XJ are the same distance apart too. 8)
Ride Hard Live Free
Twisties seperate the men from the boys
FarRider 413 "IT'S JUST A ROAD"
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2 x XJ750RL , 4 x XJ900 , XS650 , XV1000 TR1,VN1500 Classic.

neale
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Re: 3 degree offset headstem bearings for Yamaha?

Post by neale » Wed May 30, 2012 9:03 pm

ol_750 wrote:
KBG wrote:Just remember if you use harley raked cups in another neck the distance they are apart must be the same.
XV & XJ are the same distance apart too. 8)
Unless I misread the meaning, I think the point was that we'd have to use the same distance between the cups as the HARLEY headstem does, this makes sense as they'd be machined for the angle that matches the horizontal and vertical separations of the bearing cups when mounted in the Harleys, therefore a different cup separation would put the bearings on the wrong angle for the stem?

Presumably that would bind up the stem, or at the very least chew out the bearings WAY too fast?

Doesn't anyone have a nifty CAD/CAM setup to machine up a Yammie version for us? ;^)

Actually, was at a HP seminar today, and they were saying that a German company has a version of the 3D printers that will create metal parts at a grade above cast, and in some cases above forged, canna wait for one of them, so I kin PRINT the bearing cups I need ;^) (The 3D printer I have coming only does acrylic/plastic)
Neale
'85 XV1000 with some mods, getting there
'86 XT600Z, going under the knife ASAP

KBG
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Re: 3 degree offset headstem bearings for Yamaha?

Post by KBG » Wed May 30, 2012 10:14 pm

Would not be to hard to machine cups , just do the bearing surfaces first then off set the tailstock 3 degrees and machine the outer
cups ( doing it all in one peice ) and part off the middle bit.
Making sure to mark the cups for mounting straight!
some meaningless dribble

neale
Posts: 280
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2012 6:57 pm
Location: Sydeny NSW

Re: 3 degree offset headstem bearings for Yamaha?

Post by neale » Tue Jun 19, 2012 2:01 pm

Would anyone have the outside dimensions of the Harley and Yamaha cups?

Unless I'm mistaken, the bearing and headstem of Andrew's XJ and my XV are almost identical to the Harley numbers I could find;

Yamaha:
Upper: 25 x 47 x 15
Lower: 30 x 55 x 17
190 mm long

Harley (numbers I could find):
26x47x15 top
30x55x17 bottom
Head tube length about 186 mm?

By those numbers, if the Harley offset cups could fit the Yamaha headtube, one of the Harley kits should work, so if anyone had any firm information one way or another, it would be greatly appreciated.

I want to do a "proper" chop, get it engineered and run it, but with finances in the foreseeable future, that's a long term plan, also, the path of swapping in longer forks, swingarms etc dunna work for me as the XV apparently came with the longest forks and swingarm for the Yamahas, I get and accept the comments about engineering certificate requirements, but forking out $5-7K for a minor change to the bike is out of the question for now, so if a slightly lesser change was possible within the rules, and if there was a way to get the current bike a li'l closer to the mark with the offset bearing cups, shortened shocks etc, any assistance would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Neale
Neale
'85 XV1000 with some mods, getting there
'86 XT600Z, going under the knife ASAP

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