Points Vs Electronic Ignition

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Adam84
Posts: 45
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2011 7:48 pm

Points Vs Electronic Ignition

Post by Adam84 » Fri Dec 16, 2011 8:47 am

Looking for some help/suggestions/opinions/advice.

I have been having some issues with my 650 triumph, It has started missing/stuttering and is hesitant under acceleration. Just to be sure I have cleaned and checked, stripped and cleaned everything in the carb, fuel flow and filters and everything seems to be in order. It will idle nicely and at low speed will run somewhat normally. I have scoured the usual forums and so far have new plugs, leads and coils which has me now at the points and in particular timing..
Electrical is my weak point. I understand the whole timing principal but putting it in to practice, or in other words getting my timing right is a whole new story. I will probably be leaning towards taking to someone who knows what they are doing to have it done correctly, or pending any advice given - I’ll have a go at it myself..
With that in mind, a couple of questions from a first time Brit owner…
-Does this sound like a reasonable diagnosis, or am I barking up the wrong tree?
-How often will/does timing become irregular and the causes?
-The old bloke (seem to know a thing or two) I brought my bike from said Ridged frames and electronic ignition can become a pain in the bum, is this the case?

If I go down the alley of paying someone to sort my timing out, I’d like to know how often I will be forking out X amount of money or a regular basis, when I could cut the *#@** and put an electronic ignition and have less maintaining issues.
Thanks, Adam

Prof
Founder, Choppers Australia
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Re: Points Vs Electronic Ignition

Post by Prof » Fri Dec 16, 2011 9:54 am

Not a full answer as I am not the best at diagnosing, however in my experience retarded ignition will back fire on deceleration rather than on acceleration. On acceleration, retarded ignition will just give a flat feeling and advanced ignition will ping. I time my bikes by moving points plate forwards or backwards 1-2mm at a time until the bike pulls nice and crisply under acceleration. I start of by marking a reference point with a fine texta or scratch with my knife. I find that I can achieve the correct timing this way with half a dozen runs up the road.

A faulty battery or connection will give a similar effect to what you describe. Try another battery with a lead directly to the coils so you can by pass any faulty connections. Clean all earths and connections in your ignition circuit. New wires from coils to points may be in order also. The increased vibration of higher revs can cause a worn switch or broken connection to connect erratically.

Your points faces should be nice and flat with no pitting or you will get an incorrect gap reading.

Service your auto advance unit behind the points plate. As engine revs increase the bob wieights are thrown outwards by centrifical force and move the points cam on its shaft. Make sure all parts move freely and also that they are not excessively worn (wobbly). Oil the assembly.

Exhaust length or leaks will affect mixture also.
Chopit'nrideit... Prof

KBG
Posts: 214
Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2011 8:58 pm

Re: Points Vs Electronic Ignition

Post by KBG » Fri Dec 16, 2011 11:00 pm

Sounds like you are not confident that a points set up is reliable?
Both electronic and points have there good and bad points.
Electronic ign. is very touchy on voltage and earth, points need maintenance
from time to time, I'd be happy with either.
But If I was starting with nothing I would put a Tri Spark Or Sparx on it.
I just put a Tri Spark on a Mates Trump with a three phase altenator
and it starts first kick with NO battery (I didn't believe it would)
So I guess it depends on how much you want to spend.
But If you are gonna put elec in it make sure your wiring is up to it,
and if you stick with points check all the stuff Prof said + new condensor etc.
Or you could bypass some of that and put a Hunt or Morris mag on it!!!
I've never heard of any problems with rigid frames and elecy ignitions
but if an old codger told you that he is probably speaking from experiance
and could right.
happy motoring..
some meaningless dribble

xsive
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Location: Rutherford,NSW

Re: Points Vs Electronic Ignition

Post by xsive » Fri Dec 16, 2011 11:56 pm

boyer or tri spark set and forget . not accepting throtle ? did you change any thing ? air filter /exhaust ect is it single or twin carb more imfo please
IM NOT CRAZY ITS JUST OTHER PEOPLES PERCEPTION OF MY NORMALITY THAT DIFFERS

Adam84
Posts: 45
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2011 7:48 pm

Re: Points Vs Electronic Ignition

Post by Adam84 » Sat Dec 17, 2011 10:46 am

Thanks for the suggestions, I'm about to head out now check over all the connections etc and see what I find. It makes sense that perhaps there is a shady connection when there is more vibration
KBG wrote:Sounds like you are not confident that a points set up is reliable?
Probably more so that I'm not confident in maintaining points, If I knew what/how It would be a different story I would say, all the talk of TDC, timing lights etc are making me hesitant. I'd love to whack a Joe Hunt on the side but unfortunatly my money tree has sprouted. A tri-spark maybe the way i'll head for now.
xsive wrote:boyer or tri spark set and forget . not accepting throtle ? did you change any thing ? air filter /exhaust ect is it single or twin carb more imfo please
Single Amal 930, #3 Slide, 260 Main jet, 1'1/4'' Drag pipes. Have recently changed from a Open Velocity Stack to a small dome type with a mesh screen on the carb, and from a stock tank to a peanut tank. I have been over the fuel system a couple of times everything 'appears' to be in order but I might be missing something. May need a decent tune?!

KBG
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Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2011 8:58 pm

Re: Points Vs Electronic Ignition

Post by KBG » Sat Dec 17, 2011 10:36 pm

Probably more so that I'm not confident in maintaining points, If I knew what/how It would be a different story I would say, all the talk of TDC, timing lights etc are making me hesitant. I'd love to whack a Joe Hunt on the side but unfortunatly my money tree has sprouted. A tri-spark maybe the way i'll head for now.

You will still have to do the timing with elec. ignition and check it with a light just as you would with points.
So if money is an issue stick with the points.
some meaningless dribble

tigerbob
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Location: Sydney

Re: Points Vs Electronic Ignition

Post by tigerbob » Sun Dec 18, 2011 11:37 am

My Tiger came with a Hunt maggy and it is fairly guttless down low, especially considering it's a single carb. I've been told maggys don't develop a decent spark until they have a few revs up so this may be the cause. It does start easily though- with or without a battery (obviously).

Just a heads up as I note you are running a single carb and considering a maggy. Mabye someone else can confirm or dispell as I'm not much good at tuning...
'94 Dyna Convertible
'73 TR6 Tiger - chopper under construction
'71 T140v Bonneville

KBG
Posts: 214
Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2011 8:58 pm

Re: Points Vs Electronic Ignition

Post by KBG » Sun Dec 18, 2011 11:51 am

tigerbob wrote:My Tiger came with a Hunt maggy and it is fairly guttless down low, especially considering it's a single carb. I've been told maggys don't develop a decent spark until they have a few revs up so this may be the cause. It does start easily though- with or without a battery (obviously).

Just a heads up as I note you are running a single carb and considering a maggy. Mabye someone else can confirm or dispell as I'm not much good at tuning...
I run a hunt (or two) with single carb and its fine, most pre units had magneto Ing anyway, Lucas or BTH.
with the Hunt mine will fire sometimes when easing it over compression so I think
they have enough spark down low.
JMHO Kev
some meaningless dribble

xsive
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Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 12:58 am
Location: Rutherford,NSW

Re: Points Vs Electronic Ignition

Post by xsive » Sun Dec 18, 2011 4:43 pm

had a similar problem with nigels trump recently . boyer /tri spark once fitted and timed with supplied coils should not have to be touched again . your problem to me at this stage tells me you are more than likely running rich.try with the filter element off .if it improves drop your needle valve 1 notch and try again with and without the filter i will pm you with my phone number or you can pm me your land line number and i will call you if you want to chat cheers.
IM NOT CRAZY ITS JUST OTHER PEOPLES PERCEPTION OF MY NORMALITY THAT DIFFERS

Adam84
Posts: 45
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2011 7:48 pm

Re: Points Vs Electronic Ignition

Post by Adam84 » Mon Dec 19, 2011 8:56 pm

Thanks guys, all good things to consider. When I get a little more time hopefully over the break from work I can get this sorted and start riding again.

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