Pan upgrade...

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Prof
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Pan upgrade...

Post by Prof » Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:09 pm

Rayne's pan is moving into its third reincarnation. First time round was a reasonably wide tyred, DNA springered chopper with nothing too extreme. Second time it got a new frame to suit a standard 16x5 rear tyre with a very high sissy bar narrow glide front end and everything very narrow and tall.

Rayne is not afraid to put miles on it with trips interstate and up north...
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Despite being maintained in pristine condition Rayne's pan gets it share of dirt roads; here doing 100kph on the dirt 20 ks out of Terowie...
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Well, he's caught up on a few other jobs and now figures the time has come for major changes for a third time. First up is a Meatballs 4" over springer and three degree raked headstem bearing cups.

Step one. Put her up on my truing stand. Step two remove the front end...
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Thought this was a nice character shot. Better lighting and camera would make this really special, but hey! We're here to make changes...
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HD big twins have removable headstem bearing cups between 1949 and 1986 (up to 88 on Soft tails), so we need to remove standard bearing cups so the raked cups can be installed.

Just a note here; Using raked bearing cups allows you to gain true rake of an extra 3 degrees. This increases trail and therefore stability on the road. Raked tripe trees on the other hand produce fake rake and reduce trail and therefor stability. They should only be used over 12" of extension and 45 or more degrees of rake to reduce larger trail figures that make for heavy low speed handling. When mounting a springer on a stock neck it is advisable to add the raked bearing cups as the springer moves the axle a couple of inches forwards recuding trail.

If this confuses you go here... http://www.choppersaustralia.com/definitions.html

3 degree cups can also be reversed if the Man gets out his tape to check whether you comply with Oz's 550 RidikulusRool.

Tool I use to easily knock out the cups is an old file (swap meet cheapie, they make good knives, chisels, drifts etc)...
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Drift is used on each of the four axes to keep the cup from pushing out crooked and binding and damaging the neck...
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Here's the file modified into a bearing drift. I use a 'half round' file. End is shaped as shown here. 1. ground to an 15 degree angle(A). 2. Then to stop it cutting into the neck a 1-2mm chamfer is created. Works beautifully...
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With the cups out, we get the chopper level. In this case we place a spirit level against the rear disc brake rotor. You can also use the tyre, of if you have a swing arm, across the swing arm...
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Once levelled, plumbobs are used off the centre of the rear tyre and off the steering head (two blue arrows). These are lined up with a centre line on the truing stand. I use a laser through the centre of the steering head to align the new off set bearing cups...
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Now this may seem a bit extreme, but it does allow me to make sure everything is dead true. However, the raked cups are marked front and rear with a punch mark and these can be fairly accurately lined up by eye on the steering head if you are very careful...
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The raked bearing cups move the bearing 12mm further apart. This is no problem on telescopics. But the springer hardware has to be modified so the top nut will have enough thread and the top clamp will cover the tops of the rear legs adequately. The long nut that adjusts the bearing tension needs to be shortened in the lathe by 12mm. This involves removing the bottom hex section...
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Nut installed. You can see here extra height of the raked cups...
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Springer lock stops line up with the top tube. Rayne's tank is 10mm too far forwards and the springer will hit it on full lock. For safety's sake we want 5mm clearance on full lock so I tape a couple of 5mm rubber blocks (red arrows) to the tank. The fork stops are now 4mm on one side and 8mm on the other. We will drill some 5.5mm holes on each side of the top tube, thread them to 1/4 UNF and screw in a pair of button heads with small spacers. This not only keeps the forks off the tank, but also is a very tidy way to stop the paint cracking... tomorrow's job...
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I then left Rayne to play. Front wheel on and trying some TCS stainless apehangers and a Bates style headlight (instead of his twin rectangular lamps)...
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Tomorrow well get on with the fork stops, axle spacers,brake anchor and front guard...
Chopit'nrideit... Prof

EASTY
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Location: Plympton Park
Interests: Hotrods, choppers and kustom kulture

Re: Pan upgrade...

Post by EASTY » Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:13 am

Lookin great Boys.. Gives me a bit of motivation to get mine fitted :D

Prof
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Re: Pan upgrade...

Post by Prof » Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:21 am

Quite straight forwards if you have a lathe and are patient...
Chopit'nrideit... Prof

Ren
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Re: Pan upgrade...

Post by Ren » Wed Oct 17, 2018 8:28 pm

It’s been a great couple of days at The chopper Shed.

It is straight forward as long as Prof is around to tell you what to do and fix my mistakes. :D
Ren

Prof
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Re: Pan upgrade...

Post by Prof » Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:46 pm

Aw, C'mmon Rayne. You do a great job, with few mistakes... a pleasure to work with you.

Centring wheel is easily done with a depth gauge on the rim...
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You can use a ruler, but it is less accurate due to the curved surface. Well. Rayne proved me wrong...
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...cos he got it spot on with a ruler! Cheeky bugger!
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Right spacer first 35mm long. We are mounting the guard on the axle and top of the brake caliper, so this spacer needs to be free moving on the axle. This is accomplished by making two top hats out of brass (bronze is better, but Rayne has the brass) with a stainless collar as seen in the diagram. When the brass hats are pushed together they will measure 35mm...
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Piece of 32mm stainless pipe is bored out slightly to give a smooth inside bearing surface. The guard stay will be welded to this...
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Two brass top hats made and inserted. When pushed in fully and touching, the stainless collar will have .5mm free side play so it is free to rotate as the rocker moves up and down...
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Installed...
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Forgot a progress shot. Here the right spacer machined by Rayne and installed. Rayne wanted some brass on this side to match the right side spacer. So instead of just making up a single spacer out of stainless, he machined a brass top hat that is an interference fit (ie has to be pressed in) inside the stainless. Looks pretty cool hey?
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While Rayne was otherwise engaged, I spent a bit of time playing around with the geometry of the brake caliper. The meatballs springer has a very low anchor point. To use the mounting location on the caliper mount means that the rocker angle is quite pronounced compared with the brake anchor. This in theory means that the front end will rise on braking. If the two arms were parallel the front end would pull down on braking. My main concern, here is how much the caliper will move back towards the springer legs on compression.

So the floor makes a good place to do some calculations. Rocker and rear leg and pivot points are measured and marked out. I try two different lengths of brake anchor. Blue piece of cardboard is caliper mount and brown pieces are the two anchors...
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White arrow points to arc created by caliper with longer (120mm) anchor and red arc created by shorter (95mm) anchor. The shorter anchor results in about 14mm back wards movement. The longer anchor about 10mm. In the scheme of things this difference is not significant, but it is nice to know...
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So well make an anchor around the 90-100 mm long... Guard is now set up on the wheel. Chain makes a good spacer. I've used hose and wooden blocks until recently, but saw this on U tube and it seems to be the most convenient. Doesn't slip off and can be tied to stop the wheel moving...
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We make up some patterns for the guard bracket off the caliper. Have three shots at it before Rayne is happy with the look...
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What we end up with is a bracket that angles back behind the front leg and then runs up behind it and parallel. Rayne cuts the bracket out of 5mm stainless flat bar 100mm wide. It is cleaned up on the linishing wheel and here seen installed...
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Tomorrow morning we'll drill the mounting holes in the guard and bend the bracket into the correct position. Rayne did make the fork stops and I'll get a pic of that as well. Hopefully by evening, Rayne will have the right side done and the guard fully mounted.
Chopit'nrideit... Prof

Prof
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Re: Pan upgrade...

Post by Prof » Thu Oct 18, 2018 11:51 pm

As promised, here's a pic of the fork stops. Simple, quick, neat and protects the paint. Right hand side has a small spacer under it as forks come back a little further this side...
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Now, onto the brake anchor... Didn't show you a clear photo of how the guard mount attaches to the caliper. It is held in place only by the 5/16" bolt and the 3/16" bolt that retains the brake pads. Die grinder was needed to take out a bit of metal on one side of the larger hole so both bolts would be a firm fit. Very difficult even with all the right workshop equipment to get perfect accuracy.

The original mounting for this PM brake was on a separate piece just by the large bolt. As mentioned earlier, this put the anchor at a very different angle to the rockers, so we are going to make them a little more parallel...
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Too make it easier to understand how this anchor is done, here's a photo of the finished job. Note that the front mount of the anchor has been dropped 1½" to keep the anchor rod and rocker closer to parallel..
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Now, fork tab for brake has a half inch hole with is too large for the 5/16" heim joints we are using, so a reducing bush needs to be made...
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This is what the finished join will look like. The reducing bush will actually be a threaded top hat (red arrow) and an inner spacing washer (blue). A 5/16 UNF button head will screw into the top hat and then be locked off by an acorn nut. Rayne wants to complement the brass axle bushes and grease nipples so the top hat and spacer will be done in brass also...
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Here's the drawing I do up with all the needed dimensions for Rayne...
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And away he goes... and does a great job...
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Brass pieces machined and the top hat installed. Rod with the two heim joints will be shortened dramatically and rethreaded...
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First test install shows that the threaded top hat needs some flats so a spanner can hold it while lock nut is tightened. Here flats done on the mill to 1/2" AF (across the flats). Can be done with an angle grinder, but just need more care and patience...
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Once rear connection is done we set the caliper in position with the guard support running parallel to the back leg. Rod is cut to length and threaded and all put together. Note that only one lock nut is needed. We have half inch adjustment if needed...
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A shot from the rear showing the lock nut in place...
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Another shot. Neat and tidy. I prefer to keep the caliper close in to the front legs. Calipers standing upright look like a wart on a witch's nose! Keeping the caliper back like this also allows the guard mount to be hidden more easily behind the fork legs...
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We almost finished the right side guard mount, but will show you that job after Rayne comes back on Saturday...
Chopit'nrideit... Prof

Prof
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Re: Pan upgrade...

Post by Prof » Mon Oct 29, 2018 10:05 pm

Now for the right side guard bracket. This one is longer than the left side, so we use 6mm bar in this case 30mm wide. Step one is to make a sample bracket out of thin aluminium. This gives us the length we need for the stainless. Note that it kicks back behind the axle so it will be hidden behind the fork legs...
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30mm square marked out on the stainless, the centre found and cut marked to kick it back 90 degreees. Dividers is a quick way to find the centre...
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Cut and bent in the vice using a long piece of pipe for leverage...
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It is tack welded to the axle spacer and a pair of cuts made to allow accurate bends to bring it in close to the wheel hub to match the other side. Big old 'King Dick' adjustable spanner good for jobs like this...
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Installed...
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Close up. Arrows show cuts which are then welded up...
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The brackets on the guard are tilted out too much so Rayne bends them in by clamping each side in the vice and pushing down on the guard...
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King Dick used again to give a slight twist to align it...
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Rayne then cuts and marks up the horizontal piece to which the guard will be bolted. This is also 6mm and is threaded like the other side, the two pieces then clamped for welding...
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I build up weld to create a curve to match a similar curve on the other side...
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Cooled slowly in the sand bowl...
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Linished to show any low spots needing more weld...
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Finished and installed...
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Side view...
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Completed front end...
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Handlebars...

Rayne is keen to to try a pair of pullbacks. Some lead pipe is curved and Rayne takes a seat and works out how high and how far back...
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Two pieces of stainless cut to length with a couple of inches are added at each end to allow for final adjustment. Then bent to the pattern...
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To mount the bars we screw in a threaded insert into the top of each fork leg. I forgot a pic, sorry. Then a pair of 80mm sleeves are machined with a 3/8 hole down the centre. The are then counter bored to take allen bolt heads. The allen bolts (socket head cap screws) are screwed into the tops of the fork legs...
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The two handlebar pieces slide over the sleeves. When the bars are finished they will then be located in the sleeves with a couple of 1/4" counter sunk screws. Here Rayne tries the bars for size and angle. This feels good...
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But hey man, like this is cool! For your interest old school approach was the longer the front end and greater the rake the narrower and more pulled back the bars became for best control...
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Once bar angle is chosen, Rayne settles on a single curved cross piece to fix the two pieces. This is how to find the centre of the curve. Dividers is then used to get both legs the same length...
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All marked out on a piece of 'computer paper'. Texta marks show set length after measuring the distance between the two bars. Swinging the two arcs you can see from a point on each leg equal distances from the apex provides a 'square' (more correctly, perpendicular bisector) line to allow us to make cuts that will be square to the bars...
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Here cut and fitted. Ends are ground to closely fit the round tubes and verniers used to make sure the cross piece is the right length. Cross piece is trimmed until the two bar uprights are parallel...
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Measuring with a steel rule to get cross piece horizontal...
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Bars are double checked for pullback by Rayne and marked. A flat board is clamped to the front of the bars so we can get the pull back on each side the same...
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Bars are then welded. Welding on one side, of a piece of steel will cause it to pull in slightly. Here the bottoms of the bars are spread with a jack so the silly blighters will fit back into the sleeves...
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Bars have to be polished back for two reasons. 1. for good looks and 2. so the welds can be passivated to restore any nickel surface lost due to the heat of welding. Cutting with a steel bit or steel grinder will also cause contamination with will result is surface rust in the stainless...
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Polishing basically finished, but I need to shoot into Lonsdale in the morning and grab some more mini belt sander belts to finish the job before polishing on the wheel. Once that is done the area can be passivated and repolished and Rayne should have a very cool set of pullbacks...
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More when we do that. Good luck with your builds and hope this has been helpful...
Chopit'nrideit... Prof

Prof
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Re: Pan upgrade...

Post by Prof » Wed Oct 31, 2018 11:15 pm

Here's the final post on Rayne's pan, well for a while at least.

Rayne polished up the handlebars and installed drilled them and yhen drilled and threaded the sleeves for the 1/4" retaining screws. He was keen to get the chopper on the road, so we will leave passivating until later. Sorry to not be able to show you the process at this time...
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[/bHeadlight wiring...]

Headlight now needs to be connected up. Rayne has gone back to a single Bates style and was able to use the mounting he already had for it. Colours on Rayne's wiring loom are not the normal colours for high low beam, so first we find out which colour is which using a single pin tail light globe...
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The wiring on the reflector is different again so we draw up a diagram on the floor. Black on the bike is low beam which is normally white, so we will solder in a white wire. Red is low beam which be changed to Blue. Green will be changed to black. Wire will be covered in heat shrink with just the new colours showing. We won't change the reflector wire colours for the time being..
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Wires are cut so that joins will not be along side each other. Two reasons for this. 1. No chance of a short, 2. less of a bulge in the wiring loom...
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Wires soldered and insulated and then covered in heat shrink and fed into the head light bucket...
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Bullet connectors are already on the reflector so same is done on the end of the loom. When pushing the reflector back into the bucket take special care that wires don't get jammed (and then short out) inside especially in this case where nuts and bracket protrude into the inside space.

This is important for your own safety. My workman made this mistake when wiring up the lights on my shovel. I took it for its initial run at night and as I flicked onto low beam for an oncoming car the wire shorted and the fuse blew. The car decided to turn right across in front of me and as I had another car behind me, I was invisible to the turning car. We missed literally by inches!...
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Sidestand...

The original sidestand bracket original supplied half way down the frame fractured, so Rayne decided to use the standard HD set up. Only problem was that it fouled the footpegs he had installed. Bolting on the standard mounting bracket on top or the existing bracket didn't work either, so Rayne cut out its centre so we could weld it to the bottom of the bracket, with just one extra threaded hole needed...
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Setting up for level for welding...
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Welded and cleaning up. I built up some weld to give a nice curve. This little belt sander mounted onto a stand is specially for small curves like this...
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Rayne's forwards are meant to be attached to the frame with two 3/8 UNC counter sunk bolts. Unfortunately, despite just receiving an order of over a grand's worth of stainless AF fasteners, I'd missed getting any long enough. If you run into this problem, Button heads can be used if machined first. Black texta you can see was so the forth hole could be accurately marked with a scriber. I keep a pile of pushbike spokes that can be quickly sharpened and bent for this purpose...
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Here a quick solution by counter sinking the button heads with the back of a cutting tip in the lathe...
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Bolted up...
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Side stand on. Works perfectly...
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Ready for the ride at last to see how this springer from Meatballs works. Pics first. Looking good...
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I fire up the shovel and we blast out down the road...
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I find some bumpy spots for Rayne and the springer works perfectly with not bouncing. I get a pile of video and pics...
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We pull into the servo at Aldinga so Rayne can fill up and to check bolts/nuts etc. As usual, when one pulls up on a classic chopper we get interest. This time two fellows keen to ask questions. On bloke who'd had an 85 Evo was looking for another Harley and suggested a shovel was out of the question because they were so unreliable. As you can imagine, I set him straight on that score... over 150 thousand miles on mine with next to no problems on the road...
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Everything on the Pan was fine. Fresh grease had worked its way through the bearings.. One thing that will need to be reguarly attended to. Rayne found the steeply pulled backs less than comfortable... different actually riding it to sitting on it in the shed, so he'll try them for a while and see how they go. Otherwise another set may be in the wind...

Very happy with the Meatballs springer, and it does look good.

So if you are in SA watch out for a cool black panhead chopper in the wind. Make sure you get to our Annual Chopper Muster and you are guaranteed to see it then.
Chopit'nrideit... Prof

Youngblood
Posts: 375
Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 1:48 pm
Location: North-Eastern suburbs- Adelaide

Re: Pan upgrade...

Post by Youngblood » Thu Nov 01, 2018 9:42 pm

Well done Rayne Chopper is looking the goods, hope to see you at the Muster.
8) 8) 8)
Youngblood

MeatBalls Springers
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Re: Pan upgrade...

Post by MeatBalls Springers » Thu Nov 08, 2018 9:19 am

Great Stuff Prof and Rayne, you guys really know your *#@**. I am honoured you guys chose one of our Springers for the Pan. Great job, great read, great craftsmen and killer looking end result.

Cheers
Tony Munday
Meat-Balls V-Twin
Old School Cool Springers

Prof
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Re: Pan upgrade...

Post by Prof » Thu Nov 08, 2018 9:33 am

Definitely a good looking springer and Rayne found it rides very well with no bounce. Axle nuts did come loose on a 20 minute ride though which is a concern. Any suggestions beside loctite?
Chopit'nrideit... Prof

steve
Posts: 66
Joined: Fri May 05, 2006 2:25 pm
Location: Ipswich

Re: Pan upgrade...

Post by steve » Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:46 pm

Can you give us a close up of the axle nuts. I have a few ideas but they may be impractical once I see how it goes together. My initial thought it to secure one nut with a pin/weld or JB weld so it can never come loose. This reduces the problem by 50%. I have found a mechanical method is a good way to go. This can be anything from double nuts, cotter pin, lockwire, tab washer or a multitude of other methods.

Steve

Prof
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Re: Pan upgrade...

Post by Prof » Thu Nov 08, 2018 6:27 pm

Thanks for the ideas Steve. One nut becomes the 'bolt head is good'. Lock nut on the other side might be the go. Mechanical methods are my preference too. See if Tony has had the problem on other springers. Third to last photo before starting handlebars is a good close up. Nuts do have spring washers which I would have thought would be adequate. I didn't do final tightening so don't know how tight they were for starters.
Chopit'nrideit... Prof

steve
Posts: 66
Joined: Fri May 05, 2006 2:25 pm
Location: Ipswich

Re: Pan upgrade...

Post by steve » Fri Nov 09, 2018 5:28 pm

Prof

I must have missed the photo first time around. There are two schools of thought on lock washers with one being they can make things worse. Depending on how it looks when disassembled I would consider a grub screw through the side of the acorn nut onto the axle. If the axle protruded through the nut a fair bit I would consider taking the last couple of threads off and knurling the very end. This would provide a series of valleys for the grub screw to bite into. The advantage I see with this is no loctite is needed for wheel change and if you size the head of the grub screw the same size as similar allen head fasteners on the bike no additional tooling is required. In theory for the nut to loosen it has to shear the grub screw.

If this idea is not to your liking let me know and I will see what my second choice would be.

Steve

MeatBalls Springers
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Joined: Wed May 03, 2017 8:31 pm
Location: Bendigo
Interests: Riding and Building, Choppers, Motorcycles, Dirt Bikes (new & old) and anything mechanical.
Location: Bendigo Victoria
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Re: Pan upgrade...

Post by MeatBalls Springers » Fri Nov 09, 2018 6:38 pm

Hi Gentleman,

Best solution for the above is definitely fixing one nut to the axle so it becomes a bolt. As the gents above have mentioned this can be done in a number of ways such as drilling and tapping a grub screw through the nut or drilling and using a roll pin.

All the best
Tony
Meat-Balls V-Twin
Old School Cool Springers

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